Cost of Racing, I Surprised Myself! Page 1 HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (2024)

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Posted on another thread but I surprised myself a bit when I came up with this. Please pick it apart if you can find discrepencys, but I think its pretty close. I made everything up but I could see this being a reality, maybe a driver from AUS coming over wanting to compete at a high level buying stuff over here? I would like to hear others input.

Thanks!

I can't guarantee it but I would bet that 99% of sprint cars out there do not make more money than what it costs to pay for the cars, engines, tires, and travel to go to the race track. I'm talking pure cost, without sponsors, parts deals, ect... a competitive 410 sprint car you see on the track with the WoO is $60,000-$85,000 dollars to build brand new (car and engine). Yes there are exceptions. No there is not a brand new car on the track every night.

For the sake of argument, let’s put together a dream team to run 20 races next summer during July and August.

The truck and trailer are on loan from a top team and all travel expenses are paid for. The crew guys are independently wealthy so they don’t need a cut of what the car makes, the owner is a nice guy so he pays cash out of his pocket, and just wants to try to offset costs with what the car makes, he does it because he loves it! The driver is good! Like really good, can run in the top 5 with the WoO. Let’s give driver 10% of what the car makes. (Realistically 30-50%)

Here is what im giving them for costs. 2 cars, 2 motors, a set of spares of everything for those cars, $1500 a night race budget (tires, fuel, oils, aerosols, hot dogs, chicken bites, and tenderloins)

My cost breakdowns (top of the line everything buying new)

rolling cars $20,000 each = $40,000

spares for cars = $20,000

engines brand new $55,000 each = $110,000

20 nights of $1500 racing budget = $30,000

Total = $200,000

Race

1 WoO race 6th, $2,200

2 Knoxville Weekly, WIN! 1st $4,000

3 WoO race 17th, $800

4 WoO race 3rd, $3,000

5 Doty classic 6th, $2,300

6 Eldora 13th, $1,100

7 Eldora 2nd $5,700

8 Kings royal 10th, $5,000

9 DMM Silver cup 17th, $1,300

10 Nat Open Prelim 7th, $1,800

11 National open motor blows up, 23rd $1,000

12 WoO race WIN! 1st $10,000

13 WoO race 6th, $2,300

14 pevley prelim 3rd $2,500

15 Ironman 55 9th $2,200

16 Cappy Classic, WIN! 1st! $5,000

17 Front row challenge, 17th, $1,300

18 Nats Qualifying night destroyed race car in A 24th $1,100

19 4th Hard knocks $4,000 Transferred into A

20 3rd Knoxville nationals A-main $37,500

$91,800 If I did the math wrong someone let me know. The driver gets $9,180. The car makes ~$82,000 to pay on $200,000 investment for 20 races. Owner is still down $118,000 with one blown up engine and one destroyed car.

Last year’s month of money this driver would have been 4th behind Pitman, Johnson, and Schatz.

I'm telling you guys NO ONE makes a dime in sprint car racing unless someone else is GIVING/SPENDING a dollar!

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Interesting analysis and a couple of things to consider.

• Since you aren't racing full-time, I assume there is no tow money/appearance money to be paid?
• Same with contingencies?
• What is the sale price of the cars, engines and parts? Certainly not what was paid for them but you should consider that value at the end of the season.
• Consider that you do this over 2 or 3 years using most of the same equipment. A 20 races schedule doesn't spread the cost of the equipment over enough races.
• Do you stick with only 20 races or try to supplement that with a few other regional series races that you can 'cherry-pick'?

I think your overall point that there is no way a car can covers it bills without a few big wins, tow money/contingencies or some good sponsorship is accurate.

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I helped a 410 sprint team for a few years. The hired driver took 30% of the winnings and the hired mechanic toook 15% of the winnings. We ran around 80 races a year and the owner had a budget of $200,000. In the 3 years I helped I don't believe our race winnings ever exceeded $110,000. There are no teams that race as a local anywhere that come close to breaking even. The owners do this for the love of the sport not to make a profit.

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I talked to a driver a few years ago at the World Finals. He was driving a top tier car and was fairly successful. That year they ran a mostly regional schedule (traveled to the Nationals, World Finals and maybe the Kings Royal) at a stated budget of $250,000. He said that that was a quarter of their previous budget when they ran a true "outlaw" schedule (I believe they held diamond status with the WoO). Now if his numbers are on the up and up, you just have to bounce those numbers against the total winnings numbers in BillV99’s post and there is no way a big time owner is making money without contingencies, tow money or sponsorship.

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Got this straight from a guy who does it: $1000/nightto run Port on a Saturday night - basic expenses only: tow fuel, race car fuel, tires, etc - does not include any #11's or any version of #18 - just to haul it there, run it, and getit home unscathed.

So, just for the heck of it, let's say:

put a car on the track for the season per above $200,000

Win half the races -and good luck with that - say 13 - at $3500 each plus a big win = lets just say a total of $75,000

= a loss of $125,000 - after an exceptional season!

All the more reason to support every damn one of your local racers whether you like them or not, and especially their sponsors!

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puckzx6 - agreed, the owner isn't making any money, just losing less.

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Good thread... I'd say the numbers above a fairly close for a top tier operation. But I'd add there those doing it for much less, no they are not going to win a WoO show but they may win an occasional local show or run fairly consistent top 5 at their home track. That same guy also may do a lot of his own motor work and does what's needed to cut costs without hurting the cars performance. This guy doesn't pay the driver(himself)and has a brother or 2 to help on the weekend. This guy loses no where what a top operation does but is just happy to say he done it.

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This is a cool thread. It would be interesting to pencil out those numbers after including sponsorships, deals on parts, etc. These big time teams have far less than retail price into their cars. Many are on "use and return" from chassis companies,buy one get one free on things like rod ends, radius rods, wheels,etc. Then include sponsors that own the truck and trailer, pay for fuel and tires, own engines, and things like that. It knocks a huge chunk of the cost out.

I race 360s locally around the Sioux Falls area and my brother races a street stock. We use sponsor money to prep cars and engines for the year and once the season gets rolling we would maintain on winnings on a local level if we didnt have any wrecks or engine failures. We didnt have any big time sponsors, just enough of them to pay the bills. So it is possible to not lose too much when done correctly. And I hate bringing it up, but last year at Husets with all the money Chuckles was paying we had the best year financially we've ever had and actually did make some money.

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I'd have to believe that 98% of the racers in 410 sprints are doing it as a hobby. The 410 ratings threads lists something like 1385 different drivers over a 3 year period. 2% of that number would be around 28. Are there 28 professional 410 sprint car drivers out there?

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You need to understand one thing. Many if not all of the top teams in every form of racing head to the PRI show every year. They all make there deals on those show floors. I got in with lane automotive early. It saved us a lot of dollars. I see you went with 2 cars. Not enough, your going to everyone of those races with 2 complete cars and 1 frame kit. I mention the PRI show because your going to go over and talk to Hoosier and see what kind of tire deal they'll give you. Ours was simple, BUY 100 tires. I have heard today it's 250. Ok motors, if your running a 20 race schedule, you better have at least 3, 1 in the car and 1 in the spare car above your head. Remember that when you take motor 1 in to get freshened after 10 races you probably won't get it back for 6 weeks. You'll buy your wings in kit form to save a couple bucks. Again, 5 front and 3 top assembled with 2 more in kit form. Winters will provide you with really good service if you drive out to the factory in PA but again 2 in cars and 2 spares. I see what your trying to do and yes they are just numbers. Off, but you put it out there. We had 7 sponsors on the car. They ranged in deals from (these are just money sponsors, not product) 2500.00 to 12,000.00 in cash. Roughly we got 60 K every year. Luckily with the purse structure in pa and all stars and WoO. If we wanted to keep racing we had to race every weekend. If you do that, have a maintenance schedule that will keep you in the garage late every night. You can do it. You ask any racer on tour he will tell you the same thing, it's a lot of hard work. Today's drivers get 50%. It got to be so hi because now it gives that driver drive to get every position he can. The good ones bring the car back in 1 pc. The guys that don't are costing team owners a ton of cash. FYI, Ricky Warner gets 40 %. Do that math.

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I was told a few years ago by a car owner that was paying the bills.. .. Local racing $2500 to $3k per night. WOO, $5K / night

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I'd say that's pretty close.

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When Kevin Gobrecht was running the family #92 in PA he quoted me the exact same figures to race per night. And that was in 1996. lol

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The 358s that have been filling the field at the Grove the past couple of weeks are the real winners.

SOD rules would fix a lot of it. The new Outlaw rules were a step in the wrong direction.

But things can always be worse...

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They don't even know how to spell sprint car much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

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Sounds like the very car I wrench on. It can be done for much less, it's tough, and driver must be conservative. But it can be done.

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Carbon fiber and looks expensive, but what is it? Guessing F1 car??

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it was my car for 20 yr.... if I said what my salary was and was able to race 410's and win a few I'd be called a liar... I'll add it was a special treat for me to go to mcdonalds!

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That just makes the merchandise sales all the more needed

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For those who know: what is the salvage value of cars/motors at end of year if you want to sell your old inventory to buy new?

I don't doubt owning a sprint car is a money loser, but what kind of help are these guys getting? Either in terms of getting some cents on the dollar in selling old stuff or getting some rebates from product guys?

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First place you go is the fall flea market at the farm show grounds. Second thing is you contact one of these resale guys like Dietrich and see if he's interested or has a buyer looking for something particular. Make fliers and have a few that will get them to the 360 guys. Today's stuff can be rebuilt for 1/2 the cost of new and many have turned to that.